I'll probably need to listen to that again, but off the top of my head (odd phrase, I think)...
If I remember correctly, that type "a" influences are things like books... I'm not sure if the model holds when applied to scripture. When I was a believer, and would almost lose myself (figuratively for certain, and perhaps literally) in reading & contemplating scripture, to me it seemed that at some point I went beyond just the words on the page. It seemed like I 'understood' at a beyond-rational level. Like I really 'got it.'
Practically speaking, it wasn't just 'reading,' in the way you would read the newspaper. I took the words on the page to have come through a 'prophet' but from the Mind/Spirit of the Almighty. In Protestant theology, they say that the Bible is inspired (literally, "god-breathed") and inerrant, "down to the last jot and tittle" (punctuation mark). In Islam, at least as I was learning it, the Qur'an was kept covered with a cloth and wasn't even to be touched until one has performed 'wudu' - a process of ritual cleansing.
So, I was learning the language (actually having to learn at least a few words and phrases in Arabic, Greek, and Hebrew), and restructuring my inner world, at the same time I was adopting the speech patterns and outward behaviors of the culture - which is fairly all-encompassing in Islam, changing how you eat, sleep, speak, socialize, etc.
You can't live the religious life without doing some serious and pretty literal 'modelling.' One of the first ways that the _practice_ of Islam was learned was by imitating Muhammad. Pray how he prays, eat how he eats, etc. He is considered the perfect example of living the Muslim faith.
Reading books on magic, even if you're practicing the rituals in the book, just isn't... I don't know... 'operating' (?) on the same level. With CMT in particular, you know that the author is not speaking The Truth, and that her ideas - even if the techniques are all effective - are just things to consider and try out, but not adopt without testing. There is a level of detachment kind of built in.
I had some other thought, on learning magic through books vs initiation and lodge work (which I don't have personal experience in), but I'll leave it at that. Andy Austin could no doubt speak on that at length.
As I remember, type b are books etc. with type a being everyday gossip, news etc. But I could be wrong as this is not something I’ve looked at for a while!
I know almost nothing about Gurdjieff. Haven't thought about the 'fourth way' stuff in quite a while. Might have to look at it again. Doing a quick search, I see book titles mentioning Gurdjieff & hypnosis, and Gurdjieff & Crowley.
The only thing I recall from reading _about_ Gurdjieff's teaching and methods was that the broader teaching on the importance of 'waking up' didn't seem that different from what others have said, and his methods sounded like... like his disciples should have questioned G's own consciousness.
I have to say, my (albeit limited) time spent with Gurdjieff didn't yield much that was groundbreaking for me, but this may as much be a testament to the influence he's had on other influences as much as anything. I would't be surprised if his thinking was catalytic in the development of parts work, for example.
What I got from this was that the content that we consume can influence our way of seeing the world.
I also experimented with audio tapes designed for transformation by cuiing me to imagine new ways of being in the world (ie: what it would be like to value freedom? And mostly imagination games like this).
I've gotten some temporary results with this approach of audio so I can make transformational information more embodied.
Do you have any input on using similar technologies to create embodied change.
I'm also hoping you might share others ways to shift my seeing in the moment or any others insight my comment brings to your attention
I'll probably need to listen to that again, but off the top of my head (odd phrase, I think)...
If I remember correctly, that type "a" influences are things like books... I'm not sure if the model holds when applied to scripture. When I was a believer, and would almost lose myself (figuratively for certain, and perhaps literally) in reading & contemplating scripture, to me it seemed that at some point I went beyond just the words on the page. It seemed like I 'understood' at a beyond-rational level. Like I really 'got it.'
Practically speaking, it wasn't just 'reading,' in the way you would read the newspaper. I took the words on the page to have come through a 'prophet' but from the Mind/Spirit of the Almighty. In Protestant theology, they say that the Bible is inspired (literally, "god-breathed") and inerrant, "down to the last jot and tittle" (punctuation mark). In Islam, at least as I was learning it, the Qur'an was kept covered with a cloth and wasn't even to be touched until one has performed 'wudu' - a process of ritual cleansing.
So, I was learning the language (actually having to learn at least a few words and phrases in Arabic, Greek, and Hebrew), and restructuring my inner world, at the same time I was adopting the speech patterns and outward behaviors of the culture - which is fairly all-encompassing in Islam, changing how you eat, sleep, speak, socialize, etc.
You can't live the religious life without doing some serious and pretty literal 'modelling.' One of the first ways that the _practice_ of Islam was learned was by imitating Muhammad. Pray how he prays, eat how he eats, etc. He is considered the perfect example of living the Muslim faith.
Reading books on magic, even if you're practicing the rituals in the book, just isn't... I don't know... 'operating' (?) on the same level. With CMT in particular, you know that the author is not speaking The Truth, and that her ideas - even if the techniques are all effective - are just things to consider and try out, but not adopt without testing. There is a level of detachment kind of built in.
I had some other thought, on learning magic through books vs initiation and lodge work (which I don't have personal experience in), but I'll leave it at that. Andy Austin could no doubt speak on that at length.
As I remember, type b are books etc. with type a being everyday gossip, news etc. But I could be wrong as this is not something I’ve looked at for a while!
Ah, thank you for the correction.
I know almost nothing about Gurdjieff. Haven't thought about the 'fourth way' stuff in quite a while. Might have to look at it again. Doing a quick search, I see book titles mentioning Gurdjieff & hypnosis, and Gurdjieff & Crowley.
The only thing I recall from reading _about_ Gurdjieff's teaching and methods was that the broader teaching on the importance of 'waking up' didn't seem that different from what others have said, and his methods sounded like... like his disciples should have questioned G's own consciousness.
Anyway, thanks.... yummy stuff, as usual.
Thanks Raymond
I have to say, my (albeit limited) time spent with Gurdjieff didn't yield much that was groundbreaking for me, but this may as much be a testament to the influence he's had on other influences as much as anything. I would't be surprised if his thinking was catalytic in the development of parts work, for example.
JT
Just finished reading David Icke's "The Dream." Seems George Gurdjieff had some of the same ideas.
What I got from this was that the content that we consume can influence our way of seeing the world.
I also experimented with audio tapes designed for transformation by cuiing me to imagine new ways of being in the world (ie: what it would be like to value freedom? And mostly imagination games like this).
I've gotten some temporary results with this approach of audio so I can make transformational information more embodied.
Do you have any input on using similar technologies to create embodied change.
I'm also hoping you might share others ways to shift my seeing in the moment or any others insight my comment brings to your attention